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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
1
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Posted - 2012.03.14 11:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:BioZvin wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Actually, Greyscale went to Cambridge, and while we haven't IQ tested him yet, I'm pretty sure he'd score high  I am sorry in advance here, but could we get some indication from CCP that we are being heard here. Put a lot of time into this game and really would ratter not be forced to leave because I feel like CCP only listens to Goons. I know they say we are less people then they are, but they don't number 345000 like they would have us believe. We're absolutely listening. Titans are an anti-cap/supercap ship and we need to limit their ability to kill subcaps. That's a change that's happening and is unlikely to change. The practical details on how that happens we'd love as much feedback on as possible. We've been talking about the lock timers this morning based on feedback from the playerbase, looking at what adjustments we can possibly make. The changes in the OP are still subject to change if we get feedback on how to achieve our goal better.
According to your logic Battleships are BC killers and they should be unable to pop anything smaller and so on. Now while u are doing your math please also pay attention to targets that titans kill, their signature radius, fit of "blap" titan. As far as I remember game mechanics recognizes ship as sphere of specific size. Size of this sphere = signature radius and is affected by mods fitted on ship. Size of MWD Maelstrom with shield rigs and LSE = Carrier (Capital ship) size. Since there is no difference between mwding BS and carrier according to EVE game mechanics, Titan does what it should do - kill capital.
Why don't u just balance signature radius of ships instead of nerfig something that takes 668 days to train from scratch, twice time to get ISK for it?
Sort your stuff out guys, you are about to have an issue with subscribers. 1 titan pilot = running at least 3 accounts. |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 11:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
There's something CCP should nuderstand. Titans are only tactical advantage against massive subcapital blob. Removing will leave no choice but to blob more. So there will be game of blobs and not skills and isk fielded. Would be reasonable to replace this solution with dread buff. make capitals as counter to subcaps and supers to counter capitals. CCP has this on paper but it dosn't work in game. this is the biggest issue here.
In any other case you are making a blob of battleships only weapon in large scale fight. I find this stupid since humanity always tried to have some Tactical advantage on battlefield rather fielding numbers. |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 07:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Issue here is removing titan role as it is now without replacing that role with something else. Today there is a huge gap between battleship fleets and supercapital fleets that are fielded. Capitals were filling that role once but after supercapitals appeared only carriers are ones that are fielded and only with logistics purpose. So CCP made 1+bil dreads useless. Would be nice to see some apital ship re balancing so they will take their place on battlefield against battleship fleets. Issue here is not in a titan but in variety of ships that CCP made useless up until now (remember EOS). I find CCP's approach wrong. Instead of nerfing 1 ship why don't u guys review all those ships that u made useless up until now? |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
1
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Posted - 2012.03.15 07:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
So my point is any side should have advantage on battlefield as it now (Numbers and technology). So you filed 1000 Drakes which can be countered by 200 Abaddons. Each side should be able to decide what it will bring for a fight - High SP+Expensive ships or less PS but en mass. |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
2
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Posted - 2012.03.15 10:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
you are all missing main point of current game mechanics that is broken.
Every fleet based on numbers has it's counter based on SP and ISK. Bringing 100 rifters with logistics will be countered by bringing 20 vagabonds with less logistics.
So let's assume Fleet A is T1 frigate, Fleet B is Hacs, Fleet C is battleships. So every fleet can be countered by fleet of less size but higher SP, u can always field something that requires less numbers but more SP/ISK and that something will be only like 1 rank higher then hostile fleet .
This is how it looks like: frigs > cruisers > BCs > BS > Capitals > Supercapitals > Titans. Current mechanics is good up intil BS. there is a huuuuuge gap between BS and titan. U can say that capitals are under powered and that's why they are not used or state that titans and supers are overpowered and should be nerfed. In any case this is not solving major issue - Gap between BS and a Titan. Fill that missing point and game become much better.
I've to admit - CCP Sucks in game balance. I remember same way ppl where whining about atlas capitals, so ccp created another ship to counter them. After ppl were whining about supers, now titans. in any case tweaking 1 certain ship will never fix game. If you want to fix something to and review all ships that are affected by tracking titans. I would also say that Signature stuff is kinda bullshit, ship size doesn't change by turning MWD on. So how can missile do more damage to same ship w MWD on and less damage w MWD off? |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 10:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
now this is awesome. This is how supers and titans should be used. They made what they were designed for by CCP - Obliterate capital ships. |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
2
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Posted - 2012.03.15 11:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Andski wrote:Cyaron wars wrote:you are all missing main point of current game mechanics that is broken.
Every fleet based on numbers has it's counter based on SP and ISK. Bringing 100 rifters with logistics will be countered by bringing 20 vagabonds with less logistics.
So let's assume Fleet A is T1 frigate, Fleet B is Hacs, Fleet C is battleships. So every fleet can be countered by fleet of less size but higher SP, u can always field something that requires less numbers but more SP/ISK and that something will be only like 1 rank higher then hostile fleet .
This is how it looks like: frigs > cruisers > BCs > BS > Capitals > Supercapitals > Titans. Current mechanics is good up intil BS. there is a huuuuuge gap between BS and titan. U can say that capitals are under powered and that's why they are not used or state that titans and supers are overpowered and should be nerfed. In any case this is not solving major issue - Gap between BS and a Titan. Fill that missing point and game everybody will be happy. hey tell me what happens when you throw maelstroms and logis at hacs let me save you some time: they get murdered by the hacs add some lokis, huginns, lachesis and dictors into the mix and, hey, the hacs die in a fire "fleet composition"
So basically all u say is that every fleet doctrine can be countered. So with proper fleet composition u can **** battleships with ahacs. but if battleships will burn in different directions they will murder ahacs. This is exactly what I want to say. no imagine that on a higher tier. imagine you have fleet of dreads with enough DPS to kill and track battleships out of siege mode. u dield supers to take them out. but then dreads can go to siege and start raping supers if they have enough numbers or ask for suppercap support to counter your super fleet. that's exactly what is missing. that is what I'm trying to say.
There should be no uber ship. Titans atm are viewed from solo point of view. ppl are looking at what 1 titan does instead of looking on it from fleet doctrine perspective and counter them same way. 1 dread will never kill a full fleet of battleships but 100 dreads will. 1 battleship will never alpha hac or cruiser but in numbers they will, same goes for for hacs that will **** battleships, dreads that will **** titansand so on.
Once again stop looking at 1 particular ship. Look at all those ships that are before and after it in tier rank.
Battleship killer - that is what missing in this game. ship with enough tank to adsorb a huge damage comming from number of battleships and enough DPS to bring some of them down before he dies. Titans are the ones that fulfill that role, dreads can be significant replacement to them in this case. |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 11:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mathicluanna wrote:Cyaron wars wrote:1 dread will never kill a full fleet of battleships but 100 dreads will. Lets test this. You bring the dreads I'll bring the battleships.
Read my post above again! dreads as they are now are a waste of isk and nothing else. |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 11:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Cyaron wars wrote:
So basically all u say is that every fleet doctrine can be countered. So with proper fleet composition u can **** battleships with ahacs. but if battleships will burn in different directions they will murder ahacs. This is exactly what I want to say. no imagine that on a higher tier. imagine you have fleet of dreads with enough DPS to kill and track battleships out of siege mode. u dield supers to take them out. but then dreads can go to siege and start raping supers if they have enough numbers or ask for suppercap support to counter your super fleet. that's exactly what is missing. that is what I'm trying to say.
There should be no uber ship. Titans atm are viewed from solo point of view. ppl are looking at what 1 titan does instead of looking on it from fleet doctrine perspective and counter them same way. 1 dread will never kill a full fleet of battleships but 100 dreads will. 1 battleship will never alpha hac or cruiser but in numbers they will, same goes for for hacs that will **** battleships, dreads that will **** titansand so on.
Once again stop looking at 1 particular ship. Look at all those ships that are before and after it in tier rank.
Battleship killer - that is what missing in this game. ship with enough tank to adsorb a huge damage comming from number of battleships and enough DPS to bring some of them down before he dies. Titans are the ones that fulfill that role, dreads can be significant replacement to them in this case.
The counter to a blob of titans is a bigger blob of titans. Hence the nerf.
No, counter blob of titan with Sieged dreads (still needs a buff) and support fleet. |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 11:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mathicluanna wrote:Cyaron wars wrote:Mathicluanna wrote:Cyaron wars wrote:1 dread will never kill a full fleet of battleships but 100 dreads will. Lets test this. You bring the dreads I'll bring the battleships. Read my post above again! dreads as they are now are a waste of isk and nothing else. Why should 100 dreads kill 256 battleships other than a misguided belief that more skillpoints and isk should equal more power? Dreads are balanced pretty well against battleships (i.e. they die in a fire), you don't see them on the field because supercaps are broken.
Why can Assault frigate like Ishkur **** 5 T1 frigates? Why Garmon rapes pretty much everything in his videos while flying ship fitted for over 5 bil and implants for 2bil? What's the point of training and perfecting skills then? |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 11:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
looks like you really don't understand my point or u just don't want to understand what I'm talking about. Once again I'm saying that there is a gap that should be filled. removing a role from ship and leaving that role empty is silly. |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 13:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:One aspect that should get more attention is that dedicated titan pilots are inherently lamers. How much player skill does it take to fly a juggernaut that has many millions of hitpoints, takes a looong time to be killed and also a long time to perform any action, like maneuvering, targeting, killing? You have so much more time to do the right thing than in a small ship where you often die if you do not make the right call or move in a split-second.
Virtually every elite pvper in the game (I don't count myself among them) prefers small, fast ships. Because they require GÇô and reward GÇô player skill.
Supercaps... get rid of these stupid things. And if their owners think that EVE isn't worthwile without them, good riddance.
there is a huge difference between elit pvp aka small gang engagements and sov warfare that requires a blob fights, sov grinding, capitals and supercapitals. You think ppl hot those systems in 0.0 by fighting with 10 man gans?
You are looking only on 1 side of coin. Surprise, there's another one and it's completely different from what u are talking about. this post is exactly about that stuff. |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 14:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Cyaron wars wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote:One aspect that should get more attention is that dedicated titan pilots are inherently lamers. How much player skill does it take to fly a juggernaut that has many millions of hitpoints, takes a looong time to be killed and also a long time to perform any action, like maneuvering, targeting, killing? You have so much more time to do the right thing than in a small ship where you often die if you do not make the right call or move in a split-second.
Virtually every elite pvper in the game (I don't count myself among them) prefers small, fast ships. Because they require GÇô and reward GÇô player skill.
Supercaps... get rid of these stupid things. And if their owners think that EVE isn't worthwile without them, good riddance. there is a huge difference between elit pvp aka small gang engagements and sov warfare that requires a blob fights, sov grinding, capitals and supercapitals. You think ppl hot those systems in 0.0 by fighting with 10 man gans? No, but I think peple who have/need no skill should not wield the enormous power over other players a titan currently has. I flew together with a noob player once who had bought himself a supercap character (and lied about how he did not buy it). He got himself killed twice in one day because he parked his drake inside our own catch bubble. But in a titan no one might have noticed what a ****** he was. The thought that guys like that could wield serious power and influence in EVE is horrifying to me.
I agree about titans being overpowered. I'm saying that role they have now should be taken by other ship, and it should be several tiers bellow then titan.
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Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
4
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Posted - 2012.03.16 11:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Can we balance artillery as well? |
Cyaron wars
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.17 08:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
You can link many killmails and say different things, but you all will be wrong. As one guy already posted in this thread: You cannot balance 70 billion ship vs 200 million ship. With same success you can try to balance Lamborghini vs Volkswagen Golf.
Any attempt that you make will fail since it will be wrong from very beginning. CCP should balance titans and supers against capitas and balance capitals against subcaps. that is the main point. |
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